IT’S ALL ABOUT CARDBOARD: interview & photos
I find it pretty hard to get excited about a new band or artist. No matter how much talent they have, it often feels like they are trying too hard or there’s a lot of ego involved and I can’t connect. For this reason, my music taste often goes back to the past- a time where things felt more natural and exciting.
But a few weeks ago someone played me a demo that changed my mind. I was instantly excited. The demo belonged to a London guitar band called Cardboard. Without even having met them I knew they had the genuineness other bands often lack. Relatable lyrics about the city I live in and an effortless energy that felt so much like my favourite musicians from the past. Like much of the creative endeavours from our generation right now, Cardboard formed over lockdown after meeting through music college. Their debut gig took place last month at the Fiddler’s Elbow in Chalk Farm. It was everything I hoped for and more. It was the most incredible, energetic atmosphere - like a huge outpour of their pent up energy from lockdown. I was so excited after this night that I had to set up an interview.
So let me introduce Cardboard; DAN HACKER: lead vocals & guitar, LOUIS BULTITUDE: bass, CHRIS CLAPHAM: vocals & guitar and DAN ROWSON: drums.
(Cardboard at Cable Street Studios shot by Viviana Wydler)
So, who would you say some of your influences are?
Chris: I think for me from a guitar perspective I would say J Mascis from Dinosaur Jr, Graham Coxon and definitely Radiohead as well.
Dan H: Yes definitely Radiohead. They have influenced us so much. I remember us all being up all night listening to ‘In Rainbows’ and hearing that one tune ‘Bodysnatchers’. It was so intense. I think that's the moment we knew we wanted to make some proper music.
Louis: For me, I’d say the first band I really got into was Nirvana. My mum showed me their stuff when I was a kid. The album ‘Nevermind’ in particular. Radiohead is also very important to me. My mum is a big fan of them too so I listened to a lot of their stuff growing up. The way that Colin Greenwood plays bass is very melodic but also very in the pocket at the same time. I think listening to that has definitely had an effect on how I play.
Dan R: yeah I think when I was young I was definitely into Dave Grohl from Nirvana as well. He’s just insane. Then when I started playing with Dan and Louis we jammed a lot of Jimi Hendrix and from that I discovered Mitch Mitchell. And I guess at that point my drumming became a lot more free form instead of sticking to one thing. Also Arctic Monkeys. Matt Helders drumming in their early albums in particular is amazing - there is so much energy in his drumming and it brings so much to the songs.
Dan H: I grew up listening to loads of different types of music. A lot of reggae in particular. Also Jazz. In terms of rock stuff, I think a huge influence for me is The libertines. Lyrically I think they are such a great band. I just really love the Britishness of it and how relatable it is. Writing lyrics about stuff everyone gets. Especially being young in London and some of the shit that you deal with on a night out. It's the things everyone goes through when you live here and it can be kind of annoying but also what makes London brilliant. That’s really what I get from their music.
(Dan H, Dan R & Louis at Fiddlers Elbow shot by Daisy Daniels)
Your song ‘Lost & Found’ actually very much embodies this kind of energy. What’s the story behind this song?
Dan H: So I wrote the intro riff. It was actually one the first I’d written. I then took it to Chris and we played it through a couple of times and thought it’s sounded really good and wanted to use it some way. I remember we were kind of sitting on it for a while as we basically just had this one riff on guitar and nothing else. We finally sat down one night and started to put some lyrics together. Then I guess it was kinda Louis’ idea to write something based around being on a night out, ending up with people you don’t like and not really knowing where to go from there.
Louis: yeah I guess the song is loosely based around this night when I was coming back from Dan’s and I took the night bus into central London then I went to catch a train but had missed the last one and the last night bus. So I ended up right by Trafalgar Square and there were no buses for the next couple of hours so I just decided to have a walk. So I went ‘down to the river side’ haha and was walking along Southbank and Waterloo bridge. In a strange way it was kind of a nice night for me and I felt like I had a lot of time to think and a lot of clarity as there was no way of me getting home so nothing else I could really be doing.
Dan H: Yeah I think especially that one line “I tried to get the jubilee line and my card got declined’ - it’s really just about being broke, having no job, having to beg your mates for pints at the pub and find cigarettes and all that. And yeah, just trying to get the tube and hearing that heart breaking red beep and having no way of getting home.
Chris: That’s actually the first song we all wrote together. Usually it’s me and Dan who write. So I’ll come up with the riff and Dan will polish it up and write some lyrics and it evolves from there but with that song it was very much a collective effort which was really nice. We’ve tried to do it again since but it’s never really worked too well haha.
Dan R: There was definitely something special about that song as it’s something we all related to so much and could have a lot of input in.
That song in particular has a real ‘London energy’. Do you feel being from London influences your work in any way?
Dan H: I mean for sure, it’s where we all grew up. I guess you absorb your surroundings and it becomes a part of who you are. I think a lot of people who live here can agree that a lot of the things that go on in London are complete fuckeries. I think that it’s nice to talk about them and make it funny. Even just listening to bands like The Libertines or even The Clash or The Who, I feel like there’s just a whole feeling to a band born in such a fast moving city. A place full of so many people who are all so different. No one experiences the same things on a daily basis and I think creatively that can be quite interesting.
(Cardboard at Cable Street Studios shot by Viviana Wydler)
So how did you all actually decide music was something you wanted to pursue? Was there a particular moment?
Louis: The story of how I got into bass is kinda funny actually. When I was around 7 I was taken to a Queen tribute concert with my family in the Midlands and my dad put me up on his shoulders and walked me up to the front and I could feel the bass in my chest. I asked my dad what the feeling in my chest was and he told me it was the bass and from then I knew I wanted to play bass.
After deciding this, I started this band workshop in Deptford for kids with ranging ability. I only knew a tiny bit of guitar at this point. After our final performance at the workshop they put on a show the next night for the older, more experienced musicians and my mum wanted to take me along to see it. I had no idea why because it was nothing to do with what I’d been doing and I didn’t really want to go but did anyway and it was announced at the end that I’d got a bursary to play bass at the Black Heath Conservatoire. I had lessons there for a little while then when I started secondary school I stopped playing completely as I wasn’t in a band or anything so had no one to play with. I was still really enjoyed music but got more into production instead and was making beats. I was really into trap music and 90s hip hop- a lot of east coast stuff in particular. When I got to year 11 I was stuck between going all the way with music or just getting an apprenticeship and learning a trade cause I was working with my dad at the time and really enjoyed it. But instead I decided to apply for music college. I was in year 11 when we went into lockdown so didn’t do GCSEs and all of that so instead I picked up bass again. I spent that whole period re- teaching myself by watching videos online. I was pretty into funk then so was learning slap bass. I was listening to people like Larry Graham and also acid jazz stuff too like early Jamiroquai. Then I got back to my roots with Radiohead and Nirvana and was very inspired again so I went to music college and this all happened haha.
Chris: For me, I guess the turning point was when I was about 15 and I had no clue what I wanted to do. I didn’t have any hobbies at the time and I was just in a state of feeling like I sucked at everything. I really just wanted to find something I could do that I loved and was good at. My dad played guitar and I eventually started to get really into the music he played me as a kid. Stuff like early biffy Clyro, foo fighters, steely Dan etc. I had this whole journey from about 15-17 of rediscovering all the music from my childhood and seeing it in a whole new light. I especially loved people like Johnny Greenwood and Graham Coxon and I felt so inspired to do what they were doing that I started learning guitar. At this point I was half way through my a levels and I had it in my head that I would do Spanish or something as it was the only subject I was any good at then at a certain point I just felt like it really wasn’t going anywhere and I decided to put everything into music instead and go to a music college and that’s where I met these guys and yeah, here we are.
(Chris at Fiddlers Elbow shot by Daisy Daniels)
Dan R: I think a big part of it for me was my mum taking me and my brother to Glastonbury every year whilst I was in primary school. Being in that sort of environment is a really interesting way of seeing music as it’s so much fun and you can really see how much music means to people. I remember even seeing the Rolling Stones from like 2 miles away it was incredible. I think me and my brother were both very inspired by this so my brother began playing guitar and I wanted to start an instrument as well so I just bought this really shitty drum kit and I pissed my parents off so much with the noise that they ended up getting me lessons. Then when I got to secondary school I kinda lost my inspiration a bit as no one at my school was really interested in music the way I was then after school I decided to go to music college and I met these guys and I was all of a sudden really inspired again to put all my efforts into music.
Louis: Yeah, I think festivals were a big part of it for me as well. My dad used to help set up all the art installations at Bestival in the Isle of Wight. A festival environment when you’re a kid has a huge impact. You can see how music brings everyone together. It’s like a celebration of music and everyone is so happy, having an amazing time.
Dan H: I started to play guitar properly when I was about 11. Before this I was really into football and wanted to play for QPR. When I realised this wasn't going to happen I got really into music instead. I remember, in particular, someone showing me this Jimi Hendrix tune and the way he played completely freaked me out. I was obsessed with his stuff for ages and through him I was introduced to the whole 60s psych rock scene and then more punk stuff like the stooges and New York dolls. I was also listening to a lot of soul and reggae and all different types of music and just really absorbing it all. I was playing in a reggae band from quite a young age because I am very close to Peckings studios - a record store and label on Askew Road, where I’m from. My dad introduced me to Chris Peckings and he has been so great to me. So yeah, I guess music has always kinda been there. I guess the turning point was when I was at school and getting into trouble for stupid shit. I was completely bored and none of it interested me. I realised at 16 that music was all I really had and it was something I was good at. Through music, I felt I could fuck around and break the rules and express how I was really feeling.
Dan and Chris at Fiddlers Elbow shot by Daisy Daniels)
(Dan at Fiddlers Elbow shot by Viviana Wydler)
That’s actually really interesting. I feel like music is a great way of expressing how you feel whilst still remaining masculine. How do you guys feel about this?
All: Yes completely!
Chris: 100%. That’s a huge part of the reason as well. I was terrible at talking about how I felt during school and talking about how school was affecting me. At this time, I’d usually just sit in my room and write riffs and through this I could express so much of what I was keeping in and it wasn’t embarrassing at all cause it’s literally just noise.
Dan H: Yeah it’s great cause you can turn something that was really rough for you or something that fucked you up into a positive thing. It’s an outlet and especially in the society we live in it can be quite hard to talk about your feelings. Everyone has the notion now that it’s ok but that’s kinda bullshit cause no one really does. I think we are really lucky to have this.
Louis: Yes definitely. I can relate a lot to what Chris is saying as well. I struggled quite a bit in school. I wasn’t a great student and didn’t really try very hard. I feel there was a lot of pressure. School is all about impressing people and you have to conform to what everyone else is doing. I went into year 7 with long hair, still listening to Nirvana and Radiohead. I suddenly felt this pressure to fit in and so I had to cut my hair and just be into what everyone else was. I felt quite angry at that time. But instead of getting in stupid fights etc I felt like I found a more positive outlet through playing bass. Especially when playing a really intense and fast song I felt I could just release everything I was feeling.
Dan H: I think there’s something about playing in a band as well - at our age especially and writing these songs that are coming from somewhere and expressing how we feel in a certain way. And playing a kind of music which is really high energy. We also have this great bond together and can kind of just be kids around each other, there’s no pressure and we can just be ourselves.
(Louis at Fiddlers Elbow shot by Daisy Daniels)
Any small bands you'd like to shout out?
Dan R: I’d like to shout out Fordë. We played our first gig with them and they helped us out a lot. We were pretty nervous at our sound check but they were so encouraging and even got us a little crowd together. I just think they’re a great band and in it for the right reasons.
Dan H: I don’t know really I'm not that down with the cool kids. I think the OCs are a great band and not that recognised. They’re an American garage rock band. They've been around for a while but are still going. I think they’re fucking awesome so you should check them out if you don’t know them. That’s definitely the sort of scene we’d wanna jump on.
Louis: Yeah the OCs are great. During Lockdown I found one of their old performances on KEXP. Their band has expanded massively now but this performance was back when they were a three piece and it was so incredible - they were all so locked into what they were playing.
Dan R: Also The Lazy Eyes - They’re an Australian psych rock band. I think they’re amazing.
Yeah The Australian scene is definitely popping off right now.
Dan R: Yeah the Australian scene is insane! The Chats, Amyl and Sniffers… So many great bands!
It’s very interesting because this whole scene is very much a DIY movement - They’re all self produced. They distribute and record themselves etc. These days you can really get away with that kind of thing. What do you think about this? Would you ever consider doing things in this way or would you rather be on a label?
Dan R: Everything we’ve done so far we’ve done by ourselves in terms of the demos etc but yeah i think if we got the opportunity we would want to sign to a label just to take things to the next level.
Dan H: Yeah it can be really hard to be honest with four different people with different ideas. If you’re a solo artist it’s easier to self produce I think. It's good to have outside input to keep you in check and advise you. It would also be a great opportunity to work in different places and connect with people working in the industry and get to go on tours etc.
(Cardboard at Cable Street Studios shot by Viviana Wydler)
We wanted to talk a bit about fashion as well. We cover a lot of fashion stuff within the magazine. Particularly the rise of these DIY clothing brands to have come out of lockdown. Have you guys noticed this as well? Where would you say you get inspiration in terms of style?
Louis: I nick a lot of clothes off my Dad really. He’s a carpenter so has a lot of workwear which I like a lot. Just baggy stuff to be honest or whatever's comfortable. I like flannel shirts as well. I think that’s kind of a timeless look.
Dan R: I’m really into Y2K and 90s fashion. I like Ed Hardy a lot which is quite on trend at the moment
(Dan R at Cable St Studios shot by Viviana Wydler)
Dan H: Yeah I’ve definitely noticed the rise in independent fashion as well. My mate started a brand called Phuggers which is doing really well at the moment. He started before lockdown but it definitely escalated during that time. There was so much creativity over lockdown with both music and fashion, it’s amazing. Mostly just from the boredom I guess - there was a lot of time to create.
Dan R: Music and fashion definitely overlap a lot as well. People are very influenced by what their favourite musicians wear etc.
Dan H: Definitely. I watched a documentary about the summer of soul and it’s crazy how much influence it had on pop culture and fashion in the late 60s. The mix of styles was very interesting - I noticed there were a lot of traditional African wear which then became so popular after that festival. It’s so crazy how that single festival which had only spanned over about 3 weeks completely changed everything.
So what’s next for you guys? How do you see yourselves progressing as a band?
Dan H: World domination
Dan R: Haha yeah. Well just playing to as many people as possible really. Sharing our music and getting it out there. A dream would be to play to a huge crowd at a festival and see all these people enjoying our music.
Louis: Yeah, even playing our gig at the Fiddlers Elbow was incredible. We were playing one of our faster songs and I looked into the crowd and everyone was bopping and having a great time. Seeing our music having a positive effect on people is so brilliant. That’s what it’s all about.
Collage by @_califlower
Cardboard will be playing again next week at the Magic Garden in Battersea. Judging from the response at their debut, I think this is the start of something really special and not one to miss!
Interview & collage by Norbert Wolek
Intro by Daisy Daniels
Photography by Viviana Wydler & Daisy Daniels